My views on bourgeois pornographic ideas and additional thoughts on the pornographic part of self-introduction (unsure which type to choose)

free discussion
1

Recently, I masturbate every few days, which I find morally corrupt. I want to discuss my understanding of pornographic thoughts regarding this issue. I also want to see if I have any errors in this aspect. I cannot keep it to myself.

(1) Women are not sexual tools

During my ideological struggle, I once had a fleeting thought — so what if women are sexual tools? I feel a bit resistant to writing these words now, but I need to criticize in order to thoroughly resolve the problem. Why are women not sexual tools? My understanding is:

  1. Women are independent, conscious individuals in society. They are not inherently sexual tools (it seems there is a super-class discussion about women, but here I mainly refer to women of the proletariat and petty bourgeoisie lower classes; bourgeoisie and upper petty bourgeoisie women are parasites).
  2. On the basis that women are not inherently sexual tools, why do I masturbate? I believe it’s not solely due to the indoctrination of bourgeois pornographic ideas in capitalist society. Of course, this is an important reason. But it is only an external cause; I must also look at the internal causes.
    Let me analyze my first masturbation experience: I first masturbated through genital friction. At that time, whenever I felt pleasure, I subconsciously looked for videos of “beautiful women” dancing on Douyin, which I had not downloaded before. In other words, from my first masturbation, I viewed women as sexual tools. This also illustrates the error of biological instinct theory of masturbation — humans live in society, and in class society, human thoughts always have class characteristics.
    My initial mental foundation for masturbation was still rooted in bourgeois pornographic ideas. At that time, I browsed Baidu and came across many so-called “drive” (“yellow” — spreading bourgeois pornographic ideas) posts, which became the ideological basis for my masturbation. After experiencing biological pleasure from masturbation, I became addicted, masturbating about twice a day at ages 12 or 13, with extremely corrupt morals. This is the internal cause of my masturbation.
  3. Regarding the role of women, I want to clarify that female workers, like male workers, create the wealth of contemporary society. For revolutionary development, female workers are an important part of the proletariat and other laboring people, and are a vital revolutionary force in the proletarian revolution. Women in capitalist society have suffered profound exploitation and oppression. The proletarian revolution must be combined with the women’s liberation movement; only by uniting women can the revolutionary strength be expanded, laying the class foundation for the liberation of the proletariat and other laboring people.

(2) Masturbation is an oppression of women

I have always wondered how to explain that masturbation is an oppression of women. I will discuss my view. As for my own masturbation, the fantasies in my mind are about violence or women voluntarily engaging in such acts. In these fantasies, women are merely tools to satisfy my desires. In such fantasies, women are the oppressed party.
Ideas guide practice. As for myself, this kind of thinking on one hand makes me speak vulgar language in daily social interactions, leading to moral corruption. Later, when I sat at the same desk with attractive female classmates, my reactionary thoughts resurfaced. So I wanted to improve relations by abstaining from lust. I then started using religious-like slogans and check-in methods from the abstinence community to quit, with the goal of doing well in the middle school entrance exam. Although I successfully abstained for 310 days until the exam, abstinence did not mean a revolutionary change in my attitude towards women. After all, my starting point and methods were not revolutionary. Even though I shifted to Marxism-Leninism-Maoism at that time, I only used Marxist viewpoints to explain my behavior, without truly transforming my attitude with Marxist stands, views, and methods.
During this process, after establishing good relations with girls, I was partly dissatisfied with their sometimes cold attitude towards me (now I see this as inexplicable), and partly, taking advantage of our good relationship, I would touch and grope them. At that time, the other party showed dislike, but I didn’t care, and later our relationship was not very bad. (Looking back, I was completely a subordinate male at that time).

(3) Views on the class nature of pornography

Pornographic thoughts have always been the worldview of the exploiting class. Long before in slave society, slave owners selected women who suited their aesthetic and lustful desires as tools for their licentious and shameless lives. (I’m not sure how they selected; probably from free people or slaves, since at that time women as slave owners probably did not exist, which shows a facet of class oppression.) In modern capitalist society, bourgeois men and the parasitic lower classes also use women of lower social status as sexual outlets to vent their desires. For example, prostitution and the AV industry exist. I believe this is because women, due to physiological reasons, have an inherent disadvantage in the capitalist labor market, plus other reasons (family, and other​:thinking:), which force some women onto the path of prostitution, thus oppressing society’s parasitic classes and the floating unemployed. (I’ve heard that some workers also engage in prostitution; I think such people have achieved class status as workers but still hold backward ideas, and I consider them to be floating unemployed). I believe that sexual oppression among men and women of the same class is relatively less; mainly, men with higher class status oppress women of lower status.
That’s all I want to say. The purpose of writing this post is to clear my mind of pornographic thoughts, which I may not have finished writing. Some of my views may still be wrong; I hope comrades will criticize and correct me to promote ideological struggle.

image
image344×146 40.9 KB

8 Likes
2

It is worth encouraging self-disclosure, but it is clear that there are still shortcomings in reflecting on one’s own issues, and a few points need to be pointed out.

I feel that the emphasis here is somewhat misplaced. The focus should not be on what kind of women are harmed by pornographic ideas, but rather that pornographic ideas themselves are a form of oppression. Wanting to engage in pornography or oppress women is fundamentally wrong. In the past, some people in the left circles talked about fantasizing about raping capitalists, but they didn’t really care about the class of the other party, nor were they engaged in some so-called “struggle”; for them, the focus was on sexual oppression. For example, when Cui Lili was raped by a capitalist, although she was a worker aristocrat herself, it does not mean that the capitalist’s rape was right or that the crime could be excused.

When reflecting on mistakes, one should think more about the essence of their own thoughts or behaviors, rather than picking at victims; otherwise, there might be a tendency to self-glorify. Of course, one should also consider the impact on victims and think about the social level of influence. Previously, when working in the service industry (especially in hotels), I often came into contact with some petty bourgeois, upper-class women, or bourgeois women, and I would generate various mental attacks against them, insult them in my mind, or fantasize about them being submissive, then crazily try to self-glorify, thinking they are exploiters or something similar. But this was just to comfort myself, and it cannot deny that I developed very reactionary pornographic oppression thoughts.

Saying “after gaining biological pleasure from masturbation, I was addicted” is also problematic. Masturbation is not a biological movement but a social movement. The main motivation for men to masturbate is not just the abstract physiological pleasure, but that masturbation aligns with the interests of the lower male fantasy of sexual oppression (actually fantasizing about rape). The so-called physiological pleasure here is satisfying the social and pornographic ideas of the lower male, which is ultimately controlled by social ideology. This is also in line with the Marxist outline that higher movements are based on lower movements, but lower movements are also governed by higher movements.

Actually, aesthetics also have class characteristics. Just like different classes have different views on love, they also have different aesthetic standards.寒岳’s perception that the other person is “good-looking” is also because her appearance conforms to his capitalist porn aesthetic that oppresses women.

Why “to improve the relationship by abstaining from sex”? Why did you think that not “abstaining” (which itself is not really fighting against pornographic ideas, but just an extreme form of self-deception, and the purpose is inherently bad) could help you “get along well” with women? Can you be specific about the situation? Maybe I have too little understanding of the “abstain from sex” movement and didn’t expect someone to have such thoughts.

This is actually small patience leading to great lust. The so-called abstinence forum is actually a double-edged sword that appears to oppose pornography but is actually intertwined with it. I have heard that some people in the abstinence forum, in order to “abstain,” would view women as skeletons or skulls, and repeat mantras like in the case of寒岳, to prevent themselves from having “inappropriate thoughts.” But viewing women as skeletons is itself insulting and degrading women into non-human objects, which is an extremely reactionary and sexist idea. The underlying logic of the lower male’s “abstinence” is to see oneself as a saint and women as filthy objects inferior to humans. Clearly, they are indulging in pornographic thoughts and fantasizing about perversion, yet they blame women for causing these “inappropriate thoughts.” They claim that seeing women makes it impossible to do things or become capable. Lu Xun once sharply mocked this male chauvinist idea:

“Most Chinese men could be sages, but unfortunately all are ruined by women. Shang was destroyed by Daji; Zhou was ruined by Bao Sì; Qin… although there are no clear records, we assume he was also influenced by women, which is probably not entirely wrong; and Dong Zhuo indeed was harmed by Diao Chan.” — The True Story of Ah Q

“I have never believed that Zhaojun’s marriage would bring peace to Han, or that Mulan’s military service could save Sui; I also don’t believe that Daji destroyed Yin, Xishi drowned Wu, or Yang Fei caused chaos in Tang. I think that in a male-dominated society, women would never have such great power; the responsibility for rise and fall should all be borne by men. But male authors have always blamed women for the downfall, which is truly worthless and unmanly.” — A Jin

Therefore, such ideas are fundamentally ineffective in truly eliminating pornographic thoughts.寒岳’s claim that he abstained for 310 days was just following the standards of the abstinence forum.

“Touching and groping her recklessly,” isn’t that sexual harassment or molestation? Perhaps寒岳 was just self-glorifying under the guise of being friends or classmates to comfort himself. Actually,寒岳 should seriously think about the nature of his actions when seducing that girl, what reactionary thoughts he held, what reactionary methods he used, and what bad influence he caused. Saying that you were “dissatisfied” with her “coldness” is not “inexplicable”; overall, it probably stems from your own purpose of trying to seduce her, wanting her to submit to you, which is essentially a lower male fantasy that women will be submissive. So when she shows some normal behavior (who would be enthusiastic about someone who gropes and touches them randomly?), you attack her for being “cold” to others. This is a male chauvinist thought that seeks self-glorification by turning the blame onto the victim.寒岳 should be alert.

Moreover, you said “relying on your relationship with her,” is that really a “good relationship”? You also said “she showed disgust” and “later the relationship was not very bad.” I think it’s very likely that you are viewing your relationship through a biased lens. The so-called “good relationship” might be that you deceived her into trusting you over a long period through various means, and then took advantage of that trust to carry out molestation to satisfy your pornographic thoughts. From her perspective, perhaps out of concern or other conflicting thoughts, she didn’t cut ties directly. Engels once pointed out in The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State that:

“The moral corruption of men by capitalist pornographic ideas is far worse than that of women. Prostitution only causes unfortunate women to become victims and fall into degradation, but they are far from the extent of general moral decay. On the contrary, it corrupts the character of all men.”

Many lower males in society (even on forums) use women’s kindness and simplicity to seduce and deceive. Women might see it as friendship or a relationship, but men see it as a big trap to satisfy their pornographic fantasies. You can also look at San Shui’s past self-disclosure posts about bourgeois love ideas and my subsequent replies:

Women are not inherently at a disadvantage in the capitalist labor market due to physiological reasons, and you haven’t specified what those reasons are. Social problems should be analyzed from social movements. The widespread employment discrimination faced by women in capitalist society ultimately stems from the capitalist system itself—private ownership forces women into marriage, where they are bound and dependent on their husbands, bearing heavy household chores and child-rearing responsibilities. These points are not favorable for continuous exploitation by capitalists. The general sexual oppression women face in private property society is a consequence of private ownership, rooted in the same logic. You can watch videos on YouTube about conscription issues and articles on forums discussing the social roots of women’s oppression under patriarchy. Engels’ The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State discusses this issue, and the association’s articles elaborate on Engels’ views:

10 Likes
3

Indeed,

Actually, my understanding of this point may not be very clear; I just see everyone saying this, and I take it as common sense. But when I think about why pornographic ideas are considered to be oppressing women, I don’t quite understand.
So I still have some doubts: shouldn’t women be divided into classes? (But class struggle is definitely not achieved through raping capitalists or workers’ women; I think I don’t understand this part well, so I still fantasize and come up with new material.)
When I was writing, I thought of one thing: how to explain if we say that raping capitalist women is involved. After reading the responses from comrades, I was greatly inspired: “In pornographic oppression (for example, my fantasies), regardless of the class of the other party, if I take this action (or think about raping during fantasies), it is a form of pornographic oppression. Even if in your mind you are thinking about raping capitalists or workers’ women, in reality, this kind of oppressive thought will only cause suffering to women of the same class.” I don’t know if this is the correct reasoning.

4

Indeed, although I am fantasizing and it seems I haven’t harmed anyone or generated any benefit for porn sites (my situation is quite strange, as I have been masturbating almost entirely through fantasizing for two years). However, once the mindset of oppressing women is formed, it will inevitably lead to the oppression of women in practice.

5

Oh, so that means biological behavior in society is based on social movements. Let me rethink: since the first time I masturbated, I consciously opened Douyin to look for porn videos, which is inherently oppressing women. So this is not a biological movement, but a social movement. What actually forms the internal cause of my masturbation? I think it should be that I have been browsing too many “bottom male” comments on Baidu Tieba for a long time, absorbing related ideas. Long before I masturbated, I had already thought about scenes of oppressing women, just never seen real ones, couldn’t imagine the real images, but having such fantasies is indeed there.

6

Yes, clearly wanting to oppress women and shifting the blame onto them, as if women are causing masturbation and making life difficult. These people, now that I think about it, are no different from the men below; they demean and insult women for their so-called “abstinence.” As for their purpose, I haven’t seen anything “noble.” But the series of abstinence for getting a wife, abstinence for post-marriage sex life, abstinence for exams, abstinence for finding a girlfriend—all are for oppressing women or for personal gain (serving their own interests). To put it plainly, it’s what comrades call “enduring great lust.” I was less influenced by this at the time, mainly just reciting scriptures + checking in.

7

“Jieshi” (abstinence from lust) is like this: if there are lustful thoughts in the mind, immediately recite the “Breaking Thought Formula” — “Thought arises, then break it; thoughts do not follow; when thoughts arise, be aware; once aware, there is no more.” At that time, I recited this about one or two hundred times or more each day. Then I would check in daily. Because I was quite tired every day during school, these thoughts occurred less frequently, and this recitation method for abstinence from lust could still be used. After the high school entrance exam, uh, on the 6th day, I “broke the vow” (masturbated again).
[/quote]

:white_check_mark:

I need to think about this carefully.

1 Like
8

:white_check_mark:I​:thinking:Initially, I gained a good impression among girls mainly by joking around, giving snacks, and helping them copy homework (this was after establishing a “good” relationship with that female classmate, which made other girls in the class treat me better; I didn’t lie about this, but at that time I hadn’t yet harassed the female classmates, probably because they thought I was sincere). Then I don’t know if there was some reason that prevented her from telling others about my disgusting harassment behaviors. (Looking back now, my harassment and obscene behaviors could have completely ruined my reputation, of course, this was my mistake)

That’s true. The female classmates in my class can all be described as kind and simple. Let me recall another incident: that female desk mate (referred to as M) had a close friend (referred to as X). Before X and I became desk mates, during a period when my sexual thoughts were severe, I was sitting with X. I can say I was extremely lecherous at that time—on one hand, I liked to squeeze her shoulders (although I wanted to do more outrageous things but didn’t dare), and I would make vulgar jokes, which made her extremely dislike me. I even fantasized about doing such things to X. Later, when we were assigned different desks and I was no longer with M, I was paired with X, and X’s attitude towards me was quite good. Then I— for example, if my pen fell, I would pick it up myself but insist on her helping me, and my thought at that time was to test her attitude. (Shamelessly lecherous, I really want to go back and slap myself, but that’s impossible. Now I need to resolve my mental issues so I won’t commit acts of oppression against women in high school.)

9

Let me see

10

After reading it, Comrade Fenghuo’s speech on love issues was very insightful and clear. After reading it, I felt enlightened. I wasn’t even that excited when I read the Communist Manifesto (I’m not lying, of course, this might be a bit cheesy, after all, I didn’t understand the Communist Manifesto at that time, how could I be excited). I finally understand why bourgeois love cannot be discussed. I also had romantic ideas about classmate M in the past. Next, I will analyze myself—

(1) In bourgeois love, the two sides are actually impossible to consider each other. Although bourgeois love concepts say they should consider each other, in reality, it’s self-deception, it’s that they don’t want to consider each other, they want the other to cling to them, so both do this, thus claiming to consider each other.

(2) Worldview is very important. Even in bourgeois love, if the two sides have different worldviews (of course, not fundamentally different, but different bourgeois concepts), it is very easy to break up. Not to mention the opposition between proletarian and bourgeois concepts, such opposition makes this kind of love impossible to truly have a future, last long, or be mutually appreciated. It will only be a lustful love where the man lusts after the woman’s body. Due to the same socialist worldview, Marx and Jenny would not separate, Lenin and Krupskaya also. My own conclusion is—having the same worldview doesn’t require confession, and confession can’t bring about the same worldview.

11

Sorry, I was too late yesterday and forgot, that is, women have pregnancy and menstrual periods, which make their able-to-shoulder labor time and intensity inferior to men

12

Yes, that’s what I mean, but I didn’t express it clearly at the time, nor did I clearly connect it to this.

13

Okay, I need to read more books and articles to resolve this ideological issue.

14

Your analysis of your first masturbation is too abstract. Although you later said “this also shows the error of the biological instinct theory of masturbation,” your analysis of your first masturbation is too abstract. Even though you said “this also shows the error of the biological instinct theory of masturbation,” you previously mentioned that you started masturbation by “rubbing your lower body,” which is nothing more than an abstract “pleasure.” Saying that you “subconsciously” watch porn on Douyin also feels very inexplicable. Why can you accept watching porn like that? There must be a practical basis. Many people initially resist or cannot accept pornography; it is through various selfish practices that they gradually accept and become addicted to reactionary pornographic art.

15

I need to recall again, because my first masturbation was probably around winter 2020. Five years have passed, and I can’t remember clearly.

16

Let me tell another reactionary habit of mine that oppresses women — my view on replying to female friends

I have a roughly friend-like relationship with a girl called Y. Next, I will describe the process of how I got to know her and how our relationship developed, to illustrate another common problem I had in interacting with women in the past.

In the second semester of junior high, I met Y, who was often sitting in front of or behind me and we would chat (the content of the chats was casual talk about school life, with no fixed topic at the time, and the content was quite scattered; generally summarized as school and life, which is still similar now). After that, I kept asking her for things to eat, and our interactions became closer. (At that time, I asked her for food without any other intentions because she didn’t meet my aesthetic standards, so I didn’t have any romantic thoughts; as for me freeloading on her snacks, it was because she was generous and didn’t mind much). When I recall the experience of interacting with her, I forget many daily details. But I remember one particularly disgusting thing: during some chats, I maliciously dumped some pornographic garbage, such as talking about “L管” (L-gauge). I forget the exact chat process, but when I recall it, I think of this disgusting stuff. She then didn’t reply to me, and I noticed her attitude was somewhat “cold” (cold here means cold towards me, which is completely normal, because I was dumping pornographic garbage; it’s appropriate and normal for women to be displeased and cold towards me). I think this is similar to a comment on Xiaohongshu — “You see him (referring to male friends) as a friend, but he sees you as a girl from a drama.”

Talking about this part might seem unrelated to the theme of oppressing women, mainly just describing the process of relationship development.

Later, our relationship improved, and after exchanging contact info, I sometimes enjoyed chatting with her (I’ll describe this feeling specifically — when doing homework, I would put my phone aside hoping to get a reply from her or other girls, and if they didn’t reply for a long time, I would ask why). At this point, my possessive attitude towards her began to form, and then conflicts erupted (I don’t know if this description is accurate).

During the New Year, some classmates in our class created a chat group for casual chatting, and we sent red envelopes (红包) to each other. Then, a male classmate sent her a 5.20 red envelope, saying he would send a bigger one in a few days, and Y responded with a happy emoji. I directly got jealous and asked her to send me one, but she only privately messaged me that she had sent one, which made me unhappy, and I lost my temper and deleted her. (My temper was also partly because I was showing off that I had several thousand yuan in lucky money, and everyone asked me to send red envelopes; if I didn’t, they said I should leave the group, so I had to send.) When I write this, I feel a bit ashamed, but since it’s a matter of thought, I think I should expose and criticize it.

I analyze this jealousy myself. It’s obvious that I want Y only to care about me and not other boys. I see her as a tool to please me. (At that time, I didn’t have any thoughts of sexual oppression, of course, not because I was more noble or pure, but because she didn’t meet my aesthetic standards). Now, I still have some communication with her occasionally (I rarely interact online with classmates), and my possessive thoughts towards her have decreased. Of course, I don’t think this reduction is a solution to the ideological problem; only through thorough analysis, criticism, and ideological struggle can the issue be truly resolved.

I am sure there are still shortcomings and deficiencies in my analysis, and I hope comrades will criticize and correct my various wrong ideas about women.

4 Likes
18

By the way, did you show this paragraph to Red Coal? You can tell him and ask for his opinion.